Solow Rips Anti-Semitism Envoy Over Her Response to Oren's J Street Remarks

By JTA

Published December 25, 2009.

Washington — A major Jewish communal leader is criticizing the Obama administration’s top official dealing with anti-Semitism.

Alan Solow, a longtime backer of President Obama and chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, issued a statement criticizing the U.S. offical, Hannah Rosenthal.

At issue is a report in Ha’aretz stating that Rosenthal criticized Michael Oren, the Israeli ambassador to Washington, who had described the positions of J Street, a dovish pro-Israel group, as “inimical” to Israel’s interests.

Rosenthal, who was on J Street’s board until her appointment earlier this year, reportedly told Ha’aretz that the comments were “most unfortunate.”

“As an official of the United States government, it is inappropriate for the anti-Semitism envoy to be expressing her personal views on the positions Ambassador Oren has taken as well as on the subject of who needs to be heard from in the Jewish community,” Solow said in his statement, according to Politico. “Such statements have nothing to do with her responsibilities and, based upon comments I am already receiving, could threaten to limit her effectiveness in the area for which she is actually responsible.”

Two left-wing members of the Conference of Presidents – Americans for Peace Now and Ameinu – issued statements earlier this month criticizing Oren over his comments about J Street.

The White House is reportedly circulating a statement from a State Department official praising the Israeli ambassador.

Rosenthal, who could not be reached by JTA for comment, reportedly said that the current Arab-Israeli conflict is “unacceptable” and said that American Jewish views across the spectrum, from right to left, “need to be at the table” in considering the need for Israel to make peace. And she cautioned against confusing criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism.

“I do believe that some of the criticism against Israel is anti-Semitism but not all of it is,” Rosenthal was quoted as saying in the Ha’aretz interview, which was published Thursday. “And I think that healthy democracies – and Israel is one – have to do self reflection and the world looks at the light unto the nations and says I agree to this policy or I don’t agree – that is not anti-Semitism.”

Rosenthal described the United Nations Human Rights Council’s persistent singling out of Israel as “crossing the line” into anti-Semitism. She defined it as “having the U.N. single out Israel for 170 resolutions over the last five years – when everybody knows that Sudan is committing genocide and they have only five resolutions.”

Comments

Norman Birnbaum Fri. Dec 25, 2009

Another self-important official of a Jewish organization displays the egregious self-righteousness which, alas, characterises persons of this sort. The day after a Chinese exercise in thought control, we get a Jewish one. Perhaps Mr. Solow could do himself and the Jewish community a service by learning just a bit of self-restraint. The spectacle he is making of himself is, in the event, repellent. Perhaps, putting it in language he and his friends would understand--who needs him?

Norman Sat. Dec 26, 2009

If it's inappropriate for Rosenthal, an official of the U.S. government, to express her personal views, then it's also inappropriate for Solow, the chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations, to express his personal views, which do not represent any official position of the Conference of Presidents, which operates by consensus.

But it's a waste of time to try to reason with people like Solow. This isn't about right or wrong. It's about who can profess the most extreme support for Israel.

Louise Dotter Sat. Dec 26, 2009

Thank you Norman.

Alan Sat. Dec 26, 2009

This is hilarious!

Alan Solow is the fat pig, who along with Emanuel, Axelrod, Penny Pritzker and the late unlamented Arnold J. Wolf were shilling in the Chi-town Jewish Community for Cheetah's bastard cousin even when he was sitting in Daddy Jeremiah's pew for those years.

Solow was even extolling the virtues of Barry even when Barry was demanding a "Judenrein" Judea-Samaria and was stone silent over the rape and murder of young women in Iran. Now, that he is President of the Council of Major (Jewish) Organization, either he is afraid of losing his job, or maybe, just maybe he's seen the light (which is doubtful). Still this is a classic case of the dog eating its own tail.

Obviously, I am NOT taking the side of this J Street Groupie, this stupid, hypocritical daughter of a Holocaust Survivor who argues for J Street in that the "status quo is indefensible"...for her removing Jews from their homes will bring peace, even with savage animal-murdering, Christian intimidating Hamas because that is the J Street mantra.

The only reason, and I repeat the only reason she got her job is because in the eyes of Israel-haters like Barry O., Rahmie, and Silly Shrew Sillary is she'd be a pliant stooge - which she is proving to be. Her effectiveness in battling anti-Semitism when even the White House aids and abets that mindset is about as it would be if the Keystone Cops were hired to smash crime. In other words, a classic case of the fox guarding the hen house.

Leftards like Solow and Hannah Rosenthal deserve each other. Bravo to Ambassador Oren, a scholar-soldier, for not sucking up to the Soros-paid self-haters. Unfortunately we have idiots like Missy Rosenthal who do.

esthermiriam Sat. Dec 26, 2009

And, it's inappropriate for representative of the State of Israel to be commenting on American organizations in that fashion: Now that Oren has been "fully informed," let him put his energy to responding to the "detention" of woman wearing tallit at The Wall.

And, all best to Rosenthal: it's gonna be a bumpy ride!

Alan Sat. Dec 26, 2009

Esthermiriam,

Not only is it appropriate, it is RIGHT.

Maybe J Street and its non-practicing, self-haters appeal to you, but they will NEVER speak for me.

Don't forget though, to tell me and the rest of us that the Judenrat who had Nazi bayonets in their backs were right to, or the Jewish Ghetto police...because if you say otherwise, you're a hypocrite in your defense of the Soros-paid scum.

J Street - NOT PRO-ISRAEL NOR PRO-PEACE.

Ask Soros, or the Saudi Agents who keep them solvent.

kagan Sat. Dec 26, 2009

Norman is a hoot:

"But it's a waste of time to try to reason with people like Solow. This isn't about right or wrong. It's about who can profess the most extreme support for Israel"

Let me turn this around:

"But it's a waste of time to try to reason with people like Norman (either of them). This isn't about right or wrong. It's about who can profess the most extreme hater of Israel"

Kagan Sat. Dec 26, 2009

"Rosenthal, who was on J Street’s board until her appointment earlier this year...."

This says it all.

Norman Sat. Dec 26, 2009

Like I said, no point in trying to reason with them.

The important thing we can do is put it on the record that (1) Solow doesn't speak for all Jews and (2) Solow doesn't even speak for the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations.

Rabbi Tony Jutner Sat. Dec 26, 2009

I agree with both Norman,s and as leader of New Judaism, I can comfortably state that I represent most American Jews. Judaism demands social justice, and that means supporting the Palestinians in all of their aspirations, including the Right of Return. The Jewish people need to make the ultimate sacrifice by giving up zionism and therefore usher in a golden age of peace for all. The international community of world citizens demands it

David Cohen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

So called "Rabbi" Tony Jutner who posts on Richard Silverstein's antisemitic webiste certainly doesn't speak for "most Jews."

Judaism supports social justice but above all it supports the right of the Jewish people to a Jewish State as well as the right to self defense, as do most Jews. The masochistic Jutner doesn't seem to understand that.

David Cohen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Norman Is jsut repeating himself.

he is right about one thing, thoug: you can't reason with masochists like Norman who hate the very idea of Jews not needing others to defend themselves which is to say of Jew living like grown up people taking responsibility for their own exitence and not like dhimmis or hiding like marranos which what will happen when Israel is destroyed.

Norman's idea of social justice means the murder of the Jewish people.

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Tony Jutner is NO Rabbi and his claims of being a Jew are highly debatable considering how he wishes to compare Iran's nuclear ambitions - to destroy Israel - with Israeli ownership of such weapons.

We excommunicated poor Spinoza for much, much less than the infantile, pro-Islamofascist Judenrat Strasse pablum mouthed by Tony the fraud. Pay the little boy NO mind.

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

P.S. for Jutner,

Hey Fascist Coward - practice what you preach.

Since you love the animal killers and genocidal bombers so much, why don't you have the same kind of humanity and consideration for Native Americans.

You're occupying THEIR land, Jutner. Social Justice requires you hand over your home to them - and get out.

Otherwise you are a HYPOCRITICAL FRAUD AND SELF-HATING SCHMUCK.

Michael Levin Sun. Dec 27, 2009

For further discussion see Richard Silverstein [Tikun Olam]: "Obama Administration Hangs Rosenthal Out to Dry for Criticism of Oren" http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/12/26/obama-administration-aba\ndons-rosenthal-and-courageous-criticism-of-oren/

Ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Quote: “the world looks at the light unto the nations and says I agree to this policy or I don’t agree – that is not anti-Semitism.” unquote … The above statement is so conceited that it would arouse ‘anti-Semitism’. It is arrogant, supremacist to call a nation that was created by bloodbath, by eradicating the native Palestinians and still continues to eradicate them to call it by any other name except 'terrorist state! The Zionist state should not be self-crowning itself as ‘the light unto the nations’.

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Further discussion? Nah, typical pablum from a typical Self-Hating Fascist who also offers a weblink to a site blaming Israel, not Hamas, for the violence in Gaza.

Gosh, I guess they kept those greenhouses functioning, behaved like the poor Indians at Sand Creek (never did fire one missile into Sderot), and Gilad Shalit has been back in Israel these past three years.

Richard Silverstein would have made a wonderful Kapo. As what Hannah Rosenthal really is.

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Ziomania, I take it you're as US Citizen.

If so, kindly remove your fat posterior from a "nation that was (truly) created by bloodbath".

You're occupying Native American land. Even the disingenuous Stalinist idol of the Leftards Howie Zinn will tell you that. It's time to leave. Either practice what you preach or be exposed for the Jew-hating Fascist hypocrite you really are.

BTW - the Jews were the indigenuous native population of that land you claim belonged to "native palestinians" from time immemorial. Shame you don't know History nor know how to read period.

Ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

To solve the problem that the world finds itself is to solve the ‘Jewish Question’. And what is ‘the Jewish Question’? Read the Torah where their God instructs them never to trust the gentile, never to mix with the gentile, that the gentiles are ‘disgusting’ (God’s own words), that Jews are to kill and eradicate all gentiles and never to show mercy towards any gentile. That - they are doing - but mostly by sending gentiles to kill other gentiles. The so-called ‘holocasut’ was not without cause. This is a time for Jews to look inwards and do some soul searching and they may find out as to why through the ages they were kicked out from one country after another after another. It is not happening today because of their stockpile of wmd on the soil of Arab Palestine! But would it not be better to learn to get along with the rest of humanity and to stop thinking of themselves as ‘the chosen’ but instead to become part and parcel of humanity? Then they would be embraced as ‘normal human beings’ and they won’t need their nuclear weapons that are large enough to eradicate the planet earth.

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Bottom Line is this, folks.

Hannah Rosenthal was hired to combat anti-Semitsm, not aid and abet it. She has had no background to do the former, but by her past experience as a J Street groupie, and by this shrill, unwarranted attack on an Ambassador who is a gentleman, scholar of renown, and soldier, she has demonstrated no capability for battling Jew-hate but she sure has aided and abetted Anti-Semitism.

A typical stupid and incompetent choice but then again Obama is known for his hiring of stupid, incompetent sycophants. After all, Uncle Jeremiah's "son" is pretty stupid, gutless and a liar himself, not to mention an anti-semite and reverse racist. Poor dumb Hannah fits the mold.

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Ziomania,

Ho Hum.

Let's solve your question first. You're occupying Native American land. Get out.

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Alan wrote:

[Ziomania, I take it you're as US Citizen. If so, kindly remove your fat posterior from a "nation that was (truly) created by bloodbath".You're occupying Native American land]

Alan: Unlike you, not a day passes by where I marvel at the beauty of the land now called the USA that was taken by brute force and by a holocaust of an entire people. Your nation attempted to duplicate the native Indians' fate upon the Palestinian Arabs but failed. The problem with your Nazi state is that it came into being when international law was established and when the colonized peoples of color had had enough and took up arms and sent their white colonizers packing. You are a white European colonizer. Look in the mirror! Do you think Amir Peretz shares any biologic relation to Olmert? Put the pictures of the two men side by side. What do you see? One resembles his Arab brethren and the other resembles his European Ashkenazi Jews! Are you biologically related to the Ugandan and Ethiopian Jews, Alan? I dare you to answer. A great link that might help you remove the cloud from your eyes when you look in the mirror is this:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/966952.html

I personally do not need any articles to tell me that European Jews are European, Arabs Jews are Arab and African Jews are African. All that is required are my eyes!

kagan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

ziomania you are a disgusting bigoted liar.

There is no similarity between the European conquest of the New World and the Jews return to their historical homeland.

Spare us your antisemitic "morality."

Rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Ziomania "To solve the problem that the world finds itself is to solve the ‘Jewish Question’. And what is ‘the Jewish Question’? Read the Torah where their God instructs them never to trust the gentile, never to mix with the gentile, that the gentiles are ‘disgusting’ (God’s own words), that Jews are to kill and eradicate all gentiles and never to show mercy towards any gentile. That - they are doing - but mostly by sending gentiles to kill other gentiles. The so-called ‘holocasut’ was not without cause."

This is the kind of Jew hating bigot bigot Norman is allied to.

Enjoy the company, Norman and Norman.

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

This is the kind of Jew hating bigot bigot Norman is allied to.

Enjoy the company, Norman and Norman and the "Rabbi" Tony Jutner.

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Who is 'returning' to Palestine? The Black African Jews? The Chinese Jews? The Yemeni Jews? The Anglo-European Jews?

We can be debating about ‘the Jews returning home’ till the cows come home and at the end of the day, I would be the one to concede defeat; because it is impossible to make you believe in who you really are. You have been fed utter nonsense about being ‘the chosen people’ from infancy till the day you die. You seem to be blind and do not recognize the person staring back at you in the mirror as being a European!

A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. Take a look:

http://ziomania.com/who%20are%20the%20jews/jews7.jpg

http://ziomania.com/who%20are%20the%20jews/jews1.jpg

http://ziomania.com/who%20are%20the%20jews/jews2.jpg

http://ziomania.com/who%20are%20the%20jews/jews6.jpg

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

"Who is 'returning' to Palestine? The Black African Jews? The Chinese Jews? The Yemeni Jews? The Anglo-European Jews?" ziomania

Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. Not all Jews will ever live there just as not all Irish people today live in Ireland.

Moreover just as in most countries, Ireland, Greece, Turkey, China those nationals and their families and descendents (whether they were originally, Irish, Greek, Turkish, Chinese, etc) can claim nationality, so to with the Jewish people.

Of course to a committed antisemite and Holocaust supporter like the poster above non of this matters.

Jews to him are uniquely evil and must be eliminated.

It’s a pity that the Forward allows the manic Jew hating Nazi poster to keep posting here.

Rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

It’s a pity that the Forward allows the manic Jew hating Nazi poster to keep posting here. But then I am sure the Normans and the so called “Rabbi” Jutner admire this Nazi anti-Zionist as they are birds of a feather.

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Rosen: Ziomania is a ‘she’! Why do you automatically assume a ‘he’?

If the Forward wants to silence my messages, then they would be engaging in censorship because there is nothing that I post here that can be refused with reason and historical facts. Your idea of ‘the Jews’ being a people is insane! By that logic, then the Muslim people are a ‘people’ and should congregate on one geographic location. The same logic applies to Christians. How slippery you are is dazzling to watch! What is it? Are you a religious group, which makes sense in par with Muslims and Christians being a religious group? But if you insist that you are a racial group, then you are saying that you are an idiot! Ugandan Jews and German Jews have so little in common!

Imagine if the Jewish religion had managed to convert thousands of millions of people as have the Muslim and Christian religions. Would there be enough land in the land of Arab Palestine to absorb all the Jews? This Zionism business is insane but it was a win-win situation for two warring white European peoples to solve their problems to each other's benefit: The white Europeans got to get rid of their own white European Jews and the white Jews got to occupy a large chunk of Arab Palestine and the pay back to the white Europeans was by the Zionist state serving the colonial and imperial interests in the Arab region. The logic is so straightforward that it is amazing how a smart people as the Jews are as a group seem to defy logic and reality. As I said, we can debate about the ‘Jews coming home’ till the cows come home.

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Rosen said: It’s a pity that the Forward allows the manic Jew hating Nazi poster to keep posting here.

..... Rosen: I am disappointed in you! As I stated earlier, the Jews as a group are a very smart and perceptive people! What happened to you? You should have been able to assess from my posts above that the last thing that I could be accused of is being is a 'Nazi'. No! I am a person of color in solidarity with the colonized, terrorized, zionized, dehumanized, demonized, marginalized, brutalized peoples of color the world over.

Are we going to be debating about ‘the Jews coming home’ till the cows come home or would you rather stop while you are ahead.

THE THEFT OF PALESTINE IS INDEFENSIBLE!

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

ziomania "Ziomania is a ‘she’! Why do you automatically assume a ‘he’?"

Who cares what the gender of a hater is?

Ziomania has revealed himself herself as a proud Nazi who supports the elimination of the Jewish people beginning with the Jews of Israel:

Sun. Dec 27, 2009

"To solve the problem that the world finds itself is to solve the ‘Jewish Question’. And what is ‘the Jewish Question’? Read the Torah where their God instructs them never to trust the gentile, never to mix with the gentile, that the gentiles are ‘disgusting’ (God’s own words), that Jews are to kill and eradicate all gentiles and never to show mercy towards any gentile. That - they are doing - but mostly by sending gentiles to kill other gentiles. The so-called ‘holocasut’ was not without cause." Ziomania

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Rosen: For some reason, you don’t strike me as someone who is astute, as I would concede that the Jewish people as a group are. If you were smart, you should have taken my offer to stop while you were ahead. You have no basis from which to argue your position with reason and facts. I do not seek the elimination of any people, but your arrival on the land of Palestine was intended to eradicate an entire people. The documentation is sky high. Read Livia Rokach’s ‘Israel’s Sacred Terrorism.’ Your presence on Arab Palestine is no different than the presence of the English in Kenya or the French in Algeria, except that you, the white European colonizer, arrived with a new twist: ‘ancient Israelites returning home’. Yea, right!

Do not attack the messenger. What would serve you better is to quote anything that I post that you disagree with and ask me to prove it. I would gleefully oblige. Do you not agree that the Torah tells Jews to eradicate the gentile? Yes or no?

As far as the ‘holocaust’, there aught to be a law passed by the United Nations … (strike that) or the United States … (strike that)…there is no governmental body on the face of the earth that is not beholden to the terrorist state. But somebody needs to pass a law that would forbid anyone to mention the word ‘holocaust’ by which is meant the Anglo-Jewish holocaust. When anyone mentions the word ‘holocaust’ then they have a duty as human beings to list all the horrific holocausts that occurred on the planet: from the eradication of the native Indian people, to the millions of Congolese who perished, the millions who perished during slavery, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the millions who perished during WW1&2, the number of dead in Iraq is getting close the often-repeated Jews’ six million figure. In other words, we aught to consider the death of a human being equivalent to the death of another.

And how did the Palestinian Arabs come to pay the heavy price for what amounts to be a strife between two white peoples: The Anglo Europeans and the Anglo Jews?

THE THEFT OF PALESTINE IS INDEFENSIBLE!

Chechen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

ziomanic is a pan Slavic Jew hater who posts here from time to time.

The Ruskies have killed a hundred times more Muslims than almost any other country. Their war against Muslims has been going on for hundreds of years.

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

ziomania Ziomania has revealed himself herself as a proud Nazi who supports the elimination of the Jewish people beginning with the Jews of Israel:

Sun. Dec 27, 2009

No need to respond directly to this filthy Jew hating abomination.

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

And how did the Palestinian Arabs come to pay the heavy price for what amounts to be a strife between two white peoples: The Anglo Europeans and the Anglo Jews?

THE THEFT OF PALESTINE IS INDEFENSIBLE!

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

ziomania Ziomania has revealed himself herself as a proud Nazi who supports the elimination of the Jewish people beginning with the Jews of Israel:

Sun. Dec 27, 2009

No need to respond directly to this filthy IGNORANT Jew hating abomination.

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Rosen said: No need to respond directly to this filthy Jew hating abomination.

... Thank you, Rosen. I rest my case! You could have challenged me on anything that I posted here. But you know and I know that there is nothing that could be refuted. No, today is the first time that I have ever posted at the Jewish Forward, a publication that I recommend to all to read.

That will do it for me.

(sorry for the last repeated post ... it was sent by error ... hopefully it would get removed as it is a duplicate)

THE THEFT OF PALESTINE IS INDEFENSIBLE!

JUDEAN Sun. Dec 27, 2009

JUDEA WAS STOLEN FROM THE Jewish people by the ROMANS, THEN BY THE ARABS, THEN BY THE TURKS THEN BY THE ENGLISH.

PALESTINE IS JEWISH! THE ARAB MURDEROUS INVASION WAS INDEFENSIBLE!

THE THEFT OF PALESTINE WAS INDEFENSIBLE!

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

ziomania Ziomania has revealed himself herself as a proud Nazi who supports the elimination of the Jewish people beginning with the Jews of Israel:

Sun. Dec 27, 2009

No need to respond directly to this filthy IGNORANT Jew hating abomination.

Norman Sun. Dec 27, 2009

I support Hamas and Israel making peace, because both sides will be better off under peace than war.

Rose wants Palestinians and Israelis to fight each other to the death, in the belief that there won't be too many Jewish deaths.

Notice that Rosen doesn't want to fight the Palestinians to the death *himself*, he wants other Jews to die in the service of his nationalist ideology.

Who is the Jew-hating bigot? Rosen, who wants (other) Jews to die, or me, who wants us to live in peace?

Where are you writing from, Rosen? Brooklyn? If you're such a big Zionist, why don't you make aliyah and fight Hamas yourself?

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Hey, let's report Ziomania to the FORWARD censors. Let's see if he or she will take appropriate action against an obviously hypocritical typical gutless anti-semite.

Probably not...they prefer going after the Jews. Mustn't spoil the Leftard image by bumping Fascists like Ziomania, Teodoro, and Grif - not to mention the numerous self haters from Nazi Collaborator Street (Norman is that you? - lol)

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

"The THEFT OF PALESTINE" IS DEFENSIBLE - BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PALESTINIAN, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE MUSLIMS.

AND FURTHERMORE, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT TONE AND WISH TO CALL IT WHAT YOU REALLY ARE, ZIO, JUST REMEMBER THAT WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT THE LAND IS HISTORICALLY JEWISH AND WAS STOLEN FROM US.

NOW, GET THE HELL OFF INDIAN LAND, YOU FASCIST COWARD.

Michael Kaiser Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Let's stop this vindictive, nihilistic, senseless shoot out in the Wild West between Ziomania & Rosen because it looks like the only way the discussing is going is down - way down with no end in sight. As a Jew and ardent Zionist I have little use for either AIPAC or J Street. As far as AIPAC is concerned Israel can do no wrong. According to J Street, Israel can do no right and must be more understanding of the problems & issues confronting the Palestinians. This is all nonsense! First of all, let Ziomania apply the same or even similar standards to the both the Palestinians and other Arabs as she does to Israel. A review of history (real history not politically correct)indicates that whatever flaws and short comings portrayed by Israel these past sixty years the other side has managed to out do her thousands of times over. The Palestinians are hardly the residual by product of the Holocaust, but rather willing participants. According to the official records kept by the British Foreign Office in Palestine from 1922 to 1951, of the 700,000 "Palestinians" who fled or were driven out of Israel in 1948 at least half only migrated to Palestine as recently as the 1920's & 1930's when most of the Jews came. They did so because the British relaxed many of the traveling restrictions originally imposed by the Ottomans from about 1453 to 1919. By the way these same records were used as bibliography by Jimmy Carter in his highly controversial book a few years ago which most interpret to be highly anti-Israel. That obviosly corroborates the validity of the records. Natually the relationships between the two new arriving peoples were less than cordial resulting in conflict with atrocies committed on both sides. But in 1939 under pressure from the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the leader of the Palestinians, the British issued the White Paper not only negating the Balfour Declaration but closing Palestine off to further Jewish immigration when by then they were fleeing Hitler. However Arabs continued to pour in from other Arab countries unabated. Why the double standard? The Grand Mufti then fled Palestine and after co-leading an unsuccessful revolt against the British in Iraq in 1941 fled to Nazi Germany and spent the rest of the war as Hitler's guest. When the Nazis occupied the former Yugoslavia in 1941 Himmler put him in charge of a Muslim brigade of Pro Nazi troops who rounded up much of the Balkan's Jewish population and helped deport them to their final destination. When Germany surrendered, the Grand Mufti found his way back to Palestine where he was welcomed as a hero by his countrymen. So much for the innocence of the so-called Palestinians. Subsequent to 1948 these people were actually punished by God for their collaboration with the Nazis and the rest is history.

As far as Rosen is concerned, you must remember that Israel, like the United States is comprised of human beings that are mortal with all kinds of frailties. We are not perfect. Only Ziomania, the Palestinians and their supporters are. As true democracies do have to hold ourselves up to a higher standard and are therefore capable of short comings. The expansion of the settlements on the West Bank are exacerbating the situation much in the same way as those who seek Israel's destruction are. Israel, like the United States is far from perfect but democracies cleanse their sins and dirty laundry out in the open unlike the other side (if they even cleanse them at all).

Hopefully this will put things in proper perspective and let both AIPAC and J Street continue to make their meaningless noise. But then again, empty barrels make the loudest noise!

Palestiniansareamyth Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Norman and the phony "Rabbi" Jutner are Islamofacist nazis and should be treated as such. The Forward should censor and delete all their comments.

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Michael Kaiser: You wasted your time composing and posting a message that was full of hot air signifying nothing! You say that you are a ‘Zionist’. I call that a ‘chosenist’. I refer to ‘Zionism’ as ‘chosenism’. We are back to the Torah where your God favors a people called ‘Israelites’ and he gives them land that your god even admits belongs to the gentiles.

Interesting to note that you did not refute a single statement that I posted, because you couldn't! You say that Arabs arrived at Palestine after the Ottoman relaxed restrictions. Why is that the business of an Anglo-Jew where Arabs might migrate to within their own region? You had to come from thousands of miles away in Europe with the GUARANTEE of the major powers that they would help you to press and hold your boots on the neck of the indigenous Arabs so that you could have a life of luxury with swimming pools and Asian maids pampering your existence. Your attempt to be generous towards the Arabs is no different than a thief who snatches a hundred dollars from my wallet but is willing to give me back twenty and the whole world is supposed to applaud and marvel at the kindness of the thief. You cannot be slippery forever. What is it? What brings Anglo-Jewry to Palestine?

1. Is it because the God that hates gentiles says so in the Torah? 2. Is it because you did not get along with your European neighbors? 3. It is because of Hitler?

What is it? What have any of your problems got to do with the Palestinian people?

Look Michael Kaiser: I do not have the time to be debating about how you outright stole Palestine. But let me leave you with this.

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/essays/rokach.html#APPENDIX 3 "Soon the Singing Will Turn Into A Death Moan"

ziomania Sun. Dec 27, 2009

LAST POST:

I have spent quite a bit of time today on this thread. That is enough!

It is not that you don’t get it, you do get it! You get it that you stole Palestine and that make you thieves. But you are willing to withstand worldwide condemnation for a life of luxury at the expense of others. I can’t blame you, because your god tells you to.

I would like you to check out this link that I posted on my blog that became a runaway hit overnight. It took me by surprise. So long!

http://www.ziomania.com/holocaust/holocaust.htm

mike Sun. Dec 27, 2009

I wonder if anyone actually enjoys these spitting contests?

What if you held a conversation but you set a participation criteria that limited participants to those who were sufficiently angry to be in the top 1% of human beings in terms of base level of pissed-off-ness?

The result would be the conversation you see on most forums and blogs.

Me, I'm a a Jew, I love Torah, I love peace, I love the Jewish People and the individual Jewish people in my life, I love the Palestinian People (if they'd let me anyway!),(although I haven't known any Palestinians individually in recent years).

I have no doubt about the right of Jews to live in the Land of Israel, no doubt about the right of Palestinians to live in the same place, no doubt that the IDF is saving the lives of Jews right now as we speak, no doubt that the IDF is committing constant violence against the oppressed Palestinians, no doubt that occupation is destroying us too, no doubt that the Palestinians are suffering unjustly so that we may live.

Well, truthfully, I can doubt some of those propositions, but I think them more true than false.

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Norman "I support Hamas and Israel making peace, because both sides will be better off under peace than war."

Israel supports peace. Israel withdrew from Gaza and has no interest in war. Hamas supports the elimination of Israel and the murder or Jews. Read its charter.

"Rose (SIC) wants Palestinians and Israelis to fight each other to the death, in the belief that there won't be too many Jewish deaths."

Bullshit, Rosen does not want a "fight to the death." He wants peace between Israel and the Palestinians. He wants a resumption of talks and he is for two States a Jewish State and an Arabs State leaving side by side in pece and security.

Does Norman want real peace, or the elimination of israel?

Also Rosen already served in the US army and did do his own figthing. Rosen has friends in Israel and supports their desire to leave in peace and security in their own country.

Where did Norman serve?

Norman Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Rosen, you're a hypocrite.

If you're such a big Zionist, why haven't you moved to Israel?

Alan Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Steal yo ass, Zionazi..as for you Normie, just shut the bleep up...and move to the land of the animal killer, Gaza with the rest of the inhabitants of the roach motel.

Maybe Tony Jutner will make hamoitzee with you, if he even knows how.

Michael Kaiser Sun. Dec 27, 2009

I would guess that as far as Ziomania, is concerned history is just alot of hot air. There is no need to refute Ziomania because her assertion that only Moslem Arabs have an eternal right to all lands on their terms from the Mediteranean, west to the Atlantic and then halfway around the world to Indonesia is so outlandish that it is not worth repudiating. God help those who stand in their way. For one thing Israel did not steal the land from anybody. In in 1922 there were approximately 600,000 people in Palestine (Israel), about 530,000 Arabs and 70,000 Jews spread over an entire area the size of the State of New Jersey. One need not be a rocket scientist to realize that it was a total ghost town which was also a major reason why the British designated Palestine to be the Jewish homeland along with historical evidence in the Bible. As far as Anglo Jewry to Palestine is concerned, Israel is the Jewish homeland regardless of origin. While the original pioneers of modern Israel were European in origin it should be pointed out that from 1948 to 1956 over 900,000 Jews of Arab origin living in numerous Arab countries for several thousand years were formally expelled or forced to flee their native lands. Countries like Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Jordan, Egypt and Morocco all had large established Jewish populations that were totally dismantled in a matter of years. The difference is that Israel opened its' borders and absorbed them. Why couldn't the Arabs do the same. Appoximately 55% of Israel's Jewish population is of Arab ancestry not European. So much for Anglo Jewry. If Ziomenia refers to Zionism as "Chosenism" than what does she say about the Koran promising Moslems everything under the sun. That sounds more like "Chosenism" to me. Within 300 years since Islam's origin in the mid 7th Century it spread half way around the world through the worst type of colonialism imaginable not to mention enslavement, forced conversions and subjugation of women. Is this hot air? I strongly suggest Ms. Ziomenia take a breath of hot air and chill out!

Norman Sun. Dec 27, 2009

I think Ziomania got it all wrong. She selects passages from the Torah as if normal, sane Jews actually believe it and follow it. http://www.ziomania.com/holocaust/holocaust.htm

When the Lord helps you defeat your enemies, you must destroy them without pity! Deuteronomy 7:16

If you don't force out all the people there, they will be like pointed sticks in your eyes and thorns in your back. They will always be trouble for you. Numbers 33:55

When you attack them, the Lord will force them out of the land. Then you must destroy them without mercy. Don't make any peace treaties with them, 3and don't let your sons and daughters marry any of them. Deuteronomy 7:1-3

etc.

Unfortunately there are two problems:

(1) Many of you on this comments page and elsewhere are using similar excerpts from the Hamas Charter, as if normal, sane Arabs actually believe it.

(2) As the Forward and Haaretz have reported, there are many right-wing "Rabbis," some of whom are actually authorized by the IDF to preach to soldiers, who actually *do* believe things like that. In fact, some people on this comments page actually quote and believe this vicious, racist nonsense.

So who are the real anti-Semites? Jews like me, who say these Torah passages are wrong? Or Jews like some on this list who want Jews to act the way anti-Semites claim we act?

Rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Norman "Rosen , you're a hypocrite.

If you're such a big Zionist, why haven't you moved to Israel?"

Norman, you're a hypocrite.

If you're such a big a pro-Arab-Palestinian nationalist, why haven't you moved to Gaza?

Rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Notice How Norman called me a warmonger and when I replied he decided to call me "hypocrite."

Norman is the hypocrite he doesn't want peace between Israelis and Palestinians he wants to destroy the Jewish State and in the process kill tens of thousands of Jews.

He is completely immoral like his "Rabbi" friend Jutner and like his nazi friend "ziomania."

His criticism of ziomanis is mere window dressing.

Norman Sun. Dec 27, 2009

I don't have any more to say to people who defend Solow (other than, "If you're such a dedicated Zionist, why aren't you living in Israel?"), but by way of education for the people like me who want a just peace for the Palestinians, I'd recommend the following article from The Guardian.

Gordon, like the historian Gershom Gorenberg, describes how the Palestinians started their resistance with peaceful, nonviolent protest, modeled on Ghandi (!), but the Israelis responded with brutality. According to Gordon, Israeli generals, *by their own accounts,* deliberately provoked the Palestinians into violence.

So when you complain about the Hamas Charter, or about the Gazans electing Hamas, or about firing rockets into Sderot, the answer to you is, the Hamas movement is a creature of your own making. You had many chances to work with nonviolent Palestinians who were trying to get a peaceful solution, and you rejected it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/23/israel-palestinian-peace-movement

Guardian, 23 Dec 2009, Breaking Palestine's peaceful protest, Neve Gordon.

Gordon says that Palestinians started peaceful non-violent resistance modeled on Ghandi from the beginning.

In 1967, Palestinians in Nablus started a campaign against introduction of Israeli textbooks in Palestinian schools, with a general strike. Israel categorized all forms of resistance as insurgency, including protests, meetings, publishing articles and listening to nationalist songs.

Maj. General Shlomo Gazit said in his book The Carrot and the Stick, Israel wanted to convey the message that any act of resistance would result in a disproportionate response.

The Second Intifada also began as a popular nonviolent uprising, but as Haaretz journalist Akiva Eldar revealed, top Israeli security echelons decided to "fan the flames"; Amos Malka said that the Army fired 1.3 million bullets to intensify the level of violence, to lead to a swift and decisive military victory and the successful suppression of the rebellion.

This policy continues today. Abdallah Abu Rahman, a high school teacher and coordinator of Bil'in's Popular Committee Against the Wall, was arrested on 2am 10 December, as part of a coordinated attack.

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009

Here is an example of peaceful resitance:

Hamas Charter

Hamas Principles The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Norman is either ignorant Jew hater or a liar and a hypocrite for not moving to Gaza.

rosen Sun. Dec 27, 2009